This is well worth watching in its entirety.
Joe Grundy
JoinedPosts by Joe Grundy
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16
The fall of Jericho - PROOF!
by Bloody Hotdogs! infrom the november 2015 watchtower:.
what have archaeologists found that shows that jericho was captured in a short time?.
joshua 6:10-15, 20 says that the israelite soldiers marched around the city of jericho once a day for six days.
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Geoffrey Jackson: "That would be presumptuous of us"...
by Calebs Airplane inwithin the first few minutes, mr. stewart asked geoffrey jackson if the members of the governing body consider themselves to be god's spokesperson on earth.. his response: "that would be presumptuous of us" (implying that they don't consider themselves to be god's sole channel of communication).. to me, that was the worst lie of about 26 lies he's told during this hearing.
however, mr. stewart missed an opportunity to call out mr. jackson on this bold-faced lie.
he should have asked him to explain why the watchtower magazine teaches otherwise.
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Joe Grundy
Please bear in mind that the point of the ARC was/is not to investigate JW theology, it is to put forward recommendations as to how abuse can be better dealt with. The questions about JW heirarchy and organisation were intended to identify, organisationally, whether and at what level change could be brought about.
Interesting that Jws giving evidence found the need to be so deceptive.
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2016 SPECIAL TALK---ARE YOU ON THE ROAD TO EVERLASTING LIFE?
by suavojr inare you on the road to everlasting life?.
note to the speaker: help bible students and interested ones to understand why and how to make further spiritual progress..
emphasize the many sources of help available, and warmly encourage them to act without delay.
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Joe Grundy
TOH
Well, you're entitled to your view and your comments.
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2016 SPECIAL TALK---ARE YOU ON THE ROAD TO EVERLASTING LIFE?
by suavojr inare you on the road to everlasting life?.
note to the speaker: help bible students and interested ones to understand why and how to make further spiritual progress..
emphasize the many sources of help available, and warmly encourage them to act without delay.
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Joe Grundy
"TO BE COVERED IN 30 MINUTES"
(I never was a JW)
This reminds me a bit of the time an elder called at my door and invited me to study his bible. (This must have been before I was officially labelled a dangerous apostate). 'I'd love to' I said. 'Which scholars have you studied?'. I mentioned a few (Bart Ehrman comes to mind). He mentioned a name (can't remember it now) and I asked him to write it down so that I could check out his preferred scholar's credentials. End of invitation to 'study the bible', end of conversation.
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The "mis-truths" said by brothers during the Royal Commission.
by stuckinarut2 inmy sister said she heard several "mis truths" or dare we say, "lies" said by the brothers on the stand during the royal commission.. 1) vin toole lied when asked about the expression "theocratic warfare".
he said he was unaware of the term.
2) terry obrien lied when asked whether witnesses are free to research the organisation or free to leave without any negative consequences.. 3) geoff jackson lied when he said that the organisation doesn't run a 'police state' and doesn't criticise those who want to leave.
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Joe Grundy
I've made this point somewhere else but the WT lawyer had to apologise to the judge and explain that he had no wish to mislead the enquiry. He explained that he was following the instructions he had been given by his client (WT) and that he personally had no wish to be deceptive.
For those of us familiar with courtroom speak, this was a very big deal indeed. It doesn't happen very often. In essence, the lawyer was saying to the court (hearing) that he had been deceived by the client (WT) and was distancing himself from it in an effort to preserve his professional integrity.
In my profession in the UK I was involved in many criminal trials. I can only recall a couple of occasions over many years when the lawyer for a defendant was put in this position.
It really is a huge thing, and I have no doubt that the ARC will take appropriate note.
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Did Geoffrey Jackson Commit Perjury, or Just "Spiritual Warfare"?
by The Searcher inmr. jackson was pressured by angus stewart to answer if the org condoned corporal punishment, to which he openly stated that the org does not condone corporal punishment for j.w.
children.
this "fact" has never been revealed in the org's literature, in fact, this article which was published under geoffrey jackson's supervision, by definition demonstrates the org's approval of corporal punishment for j.w.
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Joe Grundy
I was never a JW.
Perjury is perjury under the law, but bear in mind that the ARC is a fact-finding tribunal with a view to changes for the better, not a criminal trial.
Having said that, the fat lying slug Jackson was no great advertisement for his religion, was he? Uneducated, indoctrinated as a child, and cannot answer straight questions. I am confident that the ARC saw him for what he is.
On corporal punishment, I was shocked when in the company of some ardent JWs when I first lived in Cyprus 10 years ago. He was a not too bright pioneer (Greek CY) converted by his wife (Swedish). He had served jail time for refusal to do national miiltary service. She was from long time Swedish JW family. Two daughters, about 6 and 2. For no good reason I could see he disciplined the 6 year old with a hard smack across the face, and I mean hard. Wife looked on approvingly. This is not the Swedish way, AFAIK, nor the GKCY way. I told the guy that if he had done that in the UK before I retired I would have arrested him, but not to get bogged down with technicalities if I learned that he had done that again I would break his arm. He was a bit surprised and told me that it was OK because his bible and his religion told him to do this.
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Geoffrey Jackson. Seems he will be compelled to front up.
by umbertoecho inpray for brother jackson of the governing body!.
in todays news from australia it appears that, despite his previous declination to appear when invited, justice mcclellan from the australian royal commission on child sex abuse will officially summon brother geoffrey jackson to the stand after all.. ..... the commission was due to conclude its hearings into the jehovahs witnesses on wednesday but justice mcclellan said he will now call geoffrey jackson, a senior member of the churchs governing body in new york who is currently in australia, to appear next week.. .
source.
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Joe Grundy
"All I do is hope that the small post I found, was indeed true. That he will be before the RC and some serious problems can be addressed."
It seems fairly clear that the RC - in the course of Case Study 29 - want to hear from Mr Jackson next week. No reason to think that they won't.
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Geoffrey Jackson. Seems he will be compelled to front up.
by umbertoecho inpray for brother jackson of the governing body!.
in todays news from australia it appears that, despite his previous declination to appear when invited, justice mcclellan from the australian royal commission on child sex abuse will officially summon brother geoffrey jackson to the stand after all.. ..... the commission was due to conclude its hearings into the jehovahs witnesses on wednesday but justice mcclellan said he will now call geoffrey jackson, a senior member of the churchs governing body in new york who is currently in australia, to appear next week.. .
source.
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Joe Grundy
Normal procedure would be (and I guess that this would happen in this case) is for the lawyers for WT in the RC to accept service of summons on behalf of Jackson.
Last thing I heard in the RC proceedings was that time was to be set aside next week to hear Jackson's evidence - unless the CA approached HHJ McClellan to tell him that jackson would not be attending/could not assist.
I don't know whether a summons for Jackson's attendance was issued but it certainly seemed that this was the strong probability after the other evidence was heard - and that medical evidence about the condition of Mr Jackson Snr was unlikely to be relevant.
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How big a deal is the royal commission..? It seems to be not much...
by _Morpheus inmy understanding (very limited and maybe flawed) is that this commission has no teeth.
if thats true why would the org care?
send a few lawyers, go through the motions but in the end.... its a dog parking on a porch.
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Joe Grundy
How big a deal? About the biggest.
It's important to notice the difference between this and a criminal or civil trial. The fundamental point is that it is investigative and is trying to recommend improvements - thus the witnesses are there to inform the enquiry.
Normal rules of evidence don't apply, thus witnesses can provide hearsay, opinion, etc, without representing counsel being able to object to questions. Documents can be 'called for' by the RC. Notice how HHJ McClelland responded to the WT lawyer's request not to introduce the whole of a particular 'confidential' manual into public evidence - and how he asked questions about selective implementation of bible texts.
There is no jury to impress, nor any need to. It has been established that the Aus head branch committee guy gave false and misleading instructions to the WT lawyer. Established beyond doubt (but without drama) to the extent that the lawyer apologised to HHJ and said that he had not personally sought to deceive or mislead. In court-type language this is the equivalent of admitting that his client (branch head honcho) told him lies.
Similarly, when HHJ commented that a consultant's certificate concerning the health of Jackson's father may not necessarily assist, this may be taken to mean that HHJ has lost patience and a summons will be issued. (Practically, the lawyers for WT may be asked to accept service and will do so).
In a jury trial, CA Mr Stewart would probably have pursued the 'misleading instructions' part further and asked who had been consulted by the Aus branch guy. (Does anyone doubt that he was on the phone to the GB?). But here, no need.
It's cut through the crap obfuscation between the Aus branch committee and the legal Aus WT corporation (in a couple of questions). And where the real power in JW land lies (GB) and that there is no deviation from it. And in at least one Aus state, failure on the part of anybody to report crime (s.316) is a crime. Oh, and the 'list'.
Outcomes? Well, we already know that the WT must shortly produce a submission as to where its policies are wrong and harmful and how it will change them. And that by the end of the RC in a couple of years, how those changes have been implemented. (Including, possibly, how women will be involved in decision-making roles). We know that the RC is contemplating a 'redress organisation' for victims, funded by all organisations/institutions involved. And that the RC is not going away.
In colloquial terms for the JW leader witnesses before the RC, you may have had a shit day in court but it's only going to get worse.
I can see that for some viewers (esp. our US friends) this might all seem a bit tame. But it's being done politely, determinedly, and with superb research. No need for drama. This works better.
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[Day 2 - 28/7]The Royal Commissions investigation of child sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses. + VIDEO
by C0ntr013r ini decided to take one for the team and stay up to record day 2.. part 1 has been uploaded and part 2 and 3 will soon be available.. part 1: .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxspcullksa&list=plpq6kz-aghvqbadlzmqn26dvmpzddxlui&index=4.
playlist where the other parts will be added as i upload them, it also contains day 1 recorded by barbara:.
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Joe Grundy
Wow!indeed
Just watched the clip above and find the body language fascinating.
Bello - a cornered rat and looks it.
Commission's Counsel - Confident and has the research/documents to prove every question.
Chairman - well, his body language speaks volumes.
Also watch the reactions of the blonde lady in shot.